http://www.peopleforchange.net/index.ph ... 33524&st=0
At the above link, there currently is a discussion—or should I say, a pissing contest—about atheism. As usual, the non-atheists are presuming to tell us what atheism is or should be, and how we obnoxious old atheists ought to comport ourselves. Here’s an example, followed by my response:
There are people who just use atheism as a banner to march under to promote some agenda that sounds much more like a religion that it does anything else, and as a weapon for bashing other people around and an excuse to express anger and hostility.
Your observations are accurate, but will not be tolerated by some of the self-described "atheists" because it is heretical to their doctrine, every bit as much as what they say is heretical to the fundies.
We MUST choose up sides, it MUST be done on the most shallow and superficial basis, we MUST battle with one another to the death over whose doctrine is correct, and we MUST see everything through the lens of two and only two doctrines.
It is a fucking religious war, and has nothing to do with "atheism." One side claims that all "religion" is "wrong" and that they are "right." Yeah. That is a religious war. New religions never claim to be religions, they claim to be "the truth." So to say "we aren't the religious ones! They are the religious ones! Religion is bad! We are the non-religious ones who know the truth!" is just the same old steaming pile of bullshit we get from any sect of true believers and strident doctrinaire zealots. Hanging a sign around one's neck - "official not-religious rational person" doesn't fool anyone.
No one has ever magically become rational or non-religious merely by proclaiming oneself to be. In fact, I find that people so proclaiming about themselves is a pretty damned good sign that their proclamation is false.
Since I have not specifically attacked religion here, or mouthed the correct anti-religion doctrine and dogma, this post will be construed as “apologizing for religion” and place me in the camp of the evil ones spewing heresy and blasphemy.
*****
“We MUST choose up sides, it MUST be done on the most shallow and superficial basis, we MUST battle with one another to the death over whose doctrine is correct, and we MUST see everything through the lens of two and only two doctrines.”
Kindly cite a single quote where I said anything similar to your unwarranted accusation.
You want to know what's really going on? After centuries of ostracism and discrimination, we atheists have finally said, "Enough!" and are being open about our views. If some people can't handle it, that's their problem, not ours.
Some 40+ years after the Civil Rights Movement, there still exist Americans who seethe with fury when they see a white woman in public with a black man. (My late father was one such American.) But at least now, society no longer considers it acceptable to act on such negative feelings, even verbally. Someday, society (however grudgingly) will grant the same basic human rights to us atheists. I only hope it happens during my lifetime.
Until that day, the thin-skinned and the petulant will continue to have their little temper tantrums. I say, let them! Like their racist, sexist and homophobic forebears, they're part of a dying breed anyway.
At the above link, there currently is a discussion—or should I say, a pissing contest—about atheism. As usual, the non-atheists are presuming to tell us what atheism is or should be, and how we obnoxious old atheists ought to comport ourselves. Here’s an example, followed by my response:
There are people who just use atheism as a banner to march under to promote some agenda that sounds much more like a religion that it does anything else, and as a weapon for bashing other people around and an excuse to express anger and hostility.
Your observations are accurate, but will not be tolerated by some of the self-described "atheists" because it is heretical to their doctrine, every bit as much as what they say is heretical to the fundies.
We MUST choose up sides, it MUST be done on the most shallow and superficial basis, we MUST battle with one another to the death over whose doctrine is correct, and we MUST see everything through the lens of two and only two doctrines.
It is a fucking religious war, and has nothing to do with "atheism." One side claims that all "religion" is "wrong" and that they are "right." Yeah. That is a religious war. New religions never claim to be religions, they claim to be "the truth." So to say "we aren't the religious ones! They are the religious ones! Religion is bad! We are the non-religious ones who know the truth!" is just the same old steaming pile of bullshit we get from any sect of true believers and strident doctrinaire zealots. Hanging a sign around one's neck - "official not-religious rational person" doesn't fool anyone.
No one has ever magically become rational or non-religious merely by proclaiming oneself to be. In fact, I find that people so proclaiming about themselves is a pretty damned good sign that their proclamation is false.
Since I have not specifically attacked religion here, or mouthed the correct anti-religion doctrine and dogma, this post will be construed as “apologizing for religion” and place me in the camp of the evil ones spewing heresy and blasphemy.
*****
“We MUST choose up sides, it MUST be done on the most shallow and superficial basis, we MUST battle with one another to the death over whose doctrine is correct, and we MUST see everything through the lens of two and only two doctrines.”
Kindly cite a single quote where I said anything similar to your unwarranted accusation.
You want to know what's really going on? After centuries of ostracism and discrimination, we atheists have finally said, "Enough!" and are being open about our views. If some people can't handle it, that's their problem, not ours.
Some 40+ years after the Civil Rights Movement, there still exist Americans who seethe with fury when they see a white woman in public with a black man. (My late father was one such American.) But at least now, society no longer considers it acceptable to act on such negative feelings, even verbally. Someday, society (however grudgingly) will grant the same basic human rights to us atheists. I only hope it happens during my lifetime.
Until that day, the thin-skinned and the petulant will continue to have their little temper tantrums. I say, let them! Like their racist, sexist and homophobic forebears, they're part of a dying breed anyway.
1 comment:
Hm, not knowing the context of all that makes it hard to know what to make of it.
While I've sometimes bristled at the rhetoric of atheists as well as "people of faith", your comment does resonate on a personal level. I recall in school refusing to say "under god" in the pledge of allegiance. Not loudly refusing, simply not saying it. And for this I was called out publicly by my homeroom teacher and given a whole bunch of crap. Also my siblings and I endured what could only be called persecution by other students and some staff for not being catholic in our public elementary school.
In that regard, I can certainly understand where the rancor comes from.
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